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ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU,

[00:00:01]

UH, FOR JOINING US TODAY

[ 3:00 P.M. - CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL]

AT, FOR OUR CITY OF CHINO HILLS FEE SCHEDULE WORKSHOP.

SO AT THIS TIME, MADAM CITY CLERK, PRESENT COUNCIL MEMBER BENNETT HERE, COUNCIL MEMBER MORAN HERE, COUNCIL MEMBER, ROGER, ALL MEMBERS ARE PRESENT.

WONDERFUL.

THANK YOU.

MA'AM MR. MONTGOMERY,

[2. Discuss Annual Update to Fees, Fines, and Penalties]

MAYOR JOS AND CITY COUNCIL.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

AS YOU KNOW, ANNUALLY, WE REVIEW OUR FEES, FINES, AND PENALTIES TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT ANY CHANGES ARE NECESSARY FOR THE YEAR.

UH, WHAT'S PROPOSED FOR YOU TODAY, UH, REPRESENTS QUITE A BIT OF WORK.

UH, AND I WANT TO THANK OUR FINANCE AND DEPARTMENT TEAMS FOR, UH, DILIGENTLY LOOKING AT THEIR OPERATIONS TO SEE WHERE FEES NEED TO BE ADJUSTED BASED ON COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH PROVIDING THOSE SERVICES.

I ALWAYS HAVE TO LEVEL SET MY BRAIN FOR, FOR FEES, FINES, AND PENALTIES, AND REMIND MYSELF AND FOR ANYONE OUT IN THE AUDIENCE.

YOU KNOW, IF HE, UH, SHOULD RECOVER THE COST OF A SERVICE BEING PROVIDED, SOMETIMES IT'S DIRECT COST.

SOMETIMES IT'S MARKET DRIVEN, SOMETIMES IT'S SUBSIDIZED, UH, ACCORDING TO THE COUNCIL DIRECTION, UH, AND THEN FEES AND PENALTIES ARE USUALLY DESIGNED TO TRY AND, UH, ENCOURAGE PEOPLE NOT TO DO AN ACTION THAT WE, UH, UH, WE, WE DEEM UNDESIRABLE.

SO I'M GOING TO ASK OUR FINANCE DIRECTOR, KRISTA TO WALK US THROUGH, UH, THE HIGH POINTS AND THEN WE'LL, UH, WALK IT WITH A LITTLE MORE DETAIL THROUGH THE ACTUAL FEE SCHEDULE.

SO KRISTA, THANK YOU, MAYOR COUNCIL MEMBERS AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TODAY, WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS THE USER FEE ANNUAL UPDATE TO THE MASTER SCHEDULE OF FEES, FINES, AND PENALTIES.

THE CITY'S USER FEES ARE BASED ON A COST RECOVERY CONCEPT, MEANING THAT THE AMOUNT OF REVENUE GENERATED FROM THE FEES MAY NOT EXCEED THE ESTIMATED REASONABLE COST OF PROVIDING THE SERVICES.

THE PURPOSE OF THE UPDATE IS TO DETERMINE THE CURRENT REASONABLE COST OF EACH SERVICE PROVIDED BY THE CITY THAT IT CHARGES A USER FEE FOR USER FEES ARE ADOPTED TO FUND PROGRAMS AND SERVICES THAT PROVIDE LIMITED OR NO DIRECT BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY.

AS A WHOLE, THE USER FEES ARE CALCULATED BY MULTIPLYING THE FULLY BURDENED HOURLY DEPARTMENT OR DIVISION RATES.

BY THE AVERAGE TIME SPENT TO PROVIDE THE SERVICE DIRECT RELATED TO THE USER FEE, FULLY BURDENED, HOURLY RATES INCLUDE SALARY AND BENEFIT COSTS, PLUS ALL APPLICABLE OVERHEAD AMOUNTS FOR THE BLENDED GROUP, WHICH IS EITHER THE DEPARTMENT OR DIVISION STAFF IS PROPOSING THAT THESE FEES BECOME EFFECTIVE ON JULY 1ST, 2021 DEVELOPMENT SERVICES IS PROVIDING IS I'M SORRY, PROPOSING SEVEN NEW FEES, A MINOR USE PERMIT, ENTITLEMENT EXTENSION, A SMALL WIRELESS FACILITY PERMIT, A SMALL WIRELESS FACILITY PERMIT AMENDMENT, A ZONING CLEARANCE FOR ELIGIBLE FACILITY REQUESTS, ANY ZONING CLEARANCE FOR CO-LOCATION, WHICH WITH AN ADDITIONAL I'M SORRY, INITIAL DEPOSIT OF $3,712.

OTHER NEW FEES INCLUDE A ZONING CLEARANCE ENTITLEMENT EXTENSION WITH AN INITIAL DEPOSIT OF $1,732.

ANY SMALL WIRELESS FACILITY PRISMIC CONSENT FORM WITH A FLAT FEE OF $494.

THE PROPOSED INITIAL DEPOSITS EQUATE TO THE FULL COST OF AVERAGE STAFF TIME REQUIRED TO PROCESS EACH.

DID I REACH ME THREE MINUTE LIMIT YOUR TIME'S UP KRISTA REAL QUICK QUESTION.

YEAH, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A STANDARD FEE OF THE 37, 12, AND SEVERAL OF THESE FEES.

HOW MANY HOURS STAFF HOURS IS THAT ACTUALLY BASED UPON? DO YOU HAVE A ROUGH IDEA? AND I'M SAYING IT MOSTLY FOR ANYONE THAT'S LISTENING IN.

YES.

LET ME JUST, CAUSE I KNOW IT'S IN THE DETAILS.

WE'LL GET TO FIGURE IT OUT.

UM, FOR THE ONES THAT ARE $3,712, IT'S 15 HOURS OF STAFF TIME.

THE FOUR 94 IS TWO HOURS OF STAFF TIME AND THE 1007 32 IS SEVEN HOURS OF STAFF TIME.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

UH, THE SIDE IS BECAUSE WE PREVIOUSLY HAD A SECTION FOR MISCELLANEOUS FEES, BUT WE MOVE THE FEES FOR SALE OF DOCUMENTS, COPIES AND ELECTRONIC COPY OF RECORDS TO THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE SECTION AND THE PLOTTER MAP FEES.

WE MOVED TO THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE SECTION SINCE THE IT DIVISION IS IN THAT DEPARTMENT.

SORRY, WHAT DOES A PLOTTER MAP? REALLY BIG MAP, SPECIAL PRINTER AND ALL THAT FUN STUFF.

GOTCHA.

[00:05:02]

MOST OF THE FEE INCREASES BEING PROPOSED TODAY DID NOT EXCEED A 4% INCREASE.

THIS SLIDE SHOWS THE FEES THAT DID INCREASE BY MORE THAN $10 AND 4% ENGINEERING HAS FOUR FEES THAT THEY ARE PROPOSING TO INCREASE TO $1,401 TO RECOVER THE FULL COST AND IS PROPOSING TO INCREASE THE FEE FOR A BROKEN OR DAMAGED ANGLE STOP PENALTY TO $517 AND 50 CENTS TO RECOVER THE FULL COST OF FIXING IT.

PLUS A $50 PENALTY.

THIS SLIDE SHOWS THE THREE DEPARTMENT OR DIVISION FULLY BURDENED, HOURLY RATES THAT ARE INCREASING BY MORE THAN $10 OR 4%.

I'M SORRY.

AND 4%.

THESE RATES ARE FULLY BURDENED LENDED RATES FOR A DEPARTMENT OR DIVISION AND USE TO CALCULATE THE PROPOSED FEES THAT ARE BEING DISCUSSED TODAY.

KRISTA, CAN YOU LET THE PUBLIC KNOW IT IN S MEANS THE ACRONYM? I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS, BUT JUST IT'S USEFUL THAT KRISTA NATIONAL POLLUTANT DISCHARGE ELIMINATION SYSTEM, IT'S BASICALLY CLEAN STORM WATER ACTIVITY, WHICH IS WHY WE DO STREET CLEANING.

YES.

FOR THE MOST PART.

YEAH.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

AND THIS SLIDE SHOWS THE FULLY BURDEN POSITION RATES THAT ARE INCREASING BY MORE THAN $10 AND 4%.

THESE RATES ARE FOR EACH SPECIFIC POSITION.

THE CITY HAS BUDGETED.

THEY DO NOT FEED INTO THE PROPOSED FEE SCHEDULE, BUT INSTEAD THEY CAN BE USED FOR SERVICES FOR WHICH THERE IS NO SET FEE AND THE CITY NEEDS TO DETERMINE HOW MUCH TO CHARGE FOR THE SPECIFIC PERSONNEL THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION.

UH, WE CAN TAKE ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE AT THIS TIME, OR WE CAN GO THROUGH EACH PAGE, LIKE IN THE BUDGET, IF YOU UP TO YOU, MR. BENNETT, KRISTA W WITH YOUR ACCOUNTING BACKGROUND, I KNOW YOU WORKED FOR AN ACCOUNTING FIRM.

SO DID I, UH, WE USED TO CALL IT FULLY LOADED RATES, WHICH OF COURTS INCLUDED EVERYTHING AND THE KITCHEN SINK TO GET UP TO THAT HIGHEST HOURLY RATE PER, UH, PER HOUR OF WORKER OR, UH, CHARGEABILITY.

THE ONE THING THAT WE'VE BEEN CRITICIZED FOR IN THE PAST FOR OUR FEES IS THE FACT THAT IT SEEMS IN MANY INSTANCES FOR SPECIFIC ITEMS. AND WE'LL PROBABLY GET INTO THAT AS WE GO THROUGH THIS LINE ITEM BY LINE ITEM THAT THE FEES SEEM TO BE WAY OUT OF WHACK FOR WHAT'S CONSIDERED THE EFFORT THAT'S BEING DONE NOW, FULLY BURDENED RATES WHEN YOU'RE FIGURING IN EVERYTHING, ALL OF THEIR BENEFIT PACKAGE AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO EXPLAIN TO THE GENERAL RESIDENTS OUT THERE THAT ON AN AVERAGE, THOSE, THOSE FIRST ON THAT ONE SLIDE, IT'S BASICALLY $247 AN HOUR OR WAIT, EXCUSE ME, IT WAS TWO 74 OR TWO, $247 AND 47 CENTS PER HOUR IS A FULLY BURDENED RATE AVERAGE.

NOW, IF YOU'D GO THROUGH THIS SHEET AND YOU LOOK AT THE FULLY BURDENED RATE POSITION BY POSITION AND TYPE OF, OF A FEE WITHIN THAT, WE RECEIVED A SEPARATE HANDOUT ON SOME OF THE RATES ARE, ARE, YOU KNOW, FOUR OR $500 PER HOUR.

HOW DO WE EXPLAIN TO OUR RESIDENTS HOW WE'RE CHARGING THEM $247 AN HOUR TO DO WHATEVER IT IS IS NECESSARY FOR THEIR EQUIPMENT? GIVEN THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE CAN'T HAVE A PUBLIC GIFT OF FUNDS.

WE NEED TO HAVE THESE COSTS BECOME, UM, GET FULL COST RECOVERY.

BUT I JUST HAVE A REAL HARD TIME WHEN I THINK OF SOME OF OUR RESIDENTS THAT ARE OUT THERE, AND I KNOW HOW YOU CAN ADJUST FULLY LOADED RATES VERSUS WHAT YOU ACTUALLY CHARGE.

SOMEBODY FOR IT.

FEES SHOULD BE AN ELEMENT OF WHAT IS A CITY SERVICE.

AND I I'VE, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK WE'VE SEEN THIS THING FOR YEARS.

I'VE BEEN ON THIS COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, MY 13TH YEAR AND I'VE NEVER HAD REALLY HAD A PROBLEM WITH IT, BUT NOW I START LOOKING AT THIS CLOSER AND I THINK, ARE WE RE, ARE WE REALLY CORRECT? AND TRYING TO RECOVER FULL COST TO PROVIDE A SERVICE WHEN THE FULL COST, NOT ONLY IS WHAT WE'VE PAID THESE PEOPLE ON A DAILY BASIS, BUT THEIR TOTAL LIABILITY OR THEIR TOTAL COSTS WITH BENEFITS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

SO THAT'S A LONG QUESTION.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS HOW DO WE EXPLAIN THIS TO OUR, OUR PEOPLE? BECAUSE I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO GET CRITICISM ON THIS.

WE NEVER HAVE EVER HAD A FEE ISSUE COME UP WITHOUT GETTING A BUNCH OF PIMP, YOU KNOW, P UH, RESIDENTS, UH, YOU KNOW, COMPLAINING OR MAKING COMMENTS ABOUT, SORRY TO ASK SUCH A LONG.

SO FIRST OFF, I MEAN, YEAH, YOU DON'T WANT TO LOOK AT THESE RATES AND SAY, OH, THESE EMPLOYEES WERE NOT MAKING THAT MUCH.

YOU KNOW, IT STARTS OFF WITH OUR BASE SALARY.

WE ADD THE BENEFITS THAT THE CITY HAS TO PAY.

AND THEN

[00:10:01]

THERE ARE TWO RATES.

THERE'S THE INDIRECT RATE AND THE DIRECT RATE, THE DIRECT RATE RELATES TO THE COST OF THE DIVISION.

SO ANY CONTRACTS, THEY HAVE SUPPLIES, JUST DIFFERENT, UM, EVERYDAY COSTS THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE THAT GETS TACKED ON.

SO DEPENDING ON THE DIVISION AND THE COSTS, AND THEN THERE ARE THE INDIRECT RATE, WHICH ARE THE CENTRAL SERVICES.

SO FINANCE, WE DON'T CHARGE ANY OF THESE RATES.

SO THE WHOLE COST OF THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND THE OPERATING PART, IT CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE RISK HR CITY TO SOME DEGREE, WE'RE ALL CENTRAL SERVICES THAT PROVIDE SERVICE TO ALL THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS.

SO OUR COSTS, OUR PROPORTIONATE COSTS GETS TACKED ONTO THOSE RATES BECAUSE THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO RECOVER THAT.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE FOR ANY CITY THAT'S DONE A RECENT STUDY.

THIS IS GENERALLY THE METHODOLOGY.

SO WE'RE CONSISTENT, YOU KNOW, IN HOW IT'S BEING DONE CURRENTLY.

OKAY.

LET ME ASK NOW A MORE LOADED QUESTION TO BEN TO DEAL WITH.

UM, WHEN WE LOOK, WHEN WE HIRE AS AN INDIVIDUAL, A PLUMBER TO COME OUT TO OUR HOUSE AND ELECTRICIAN, TO COME OUT TO OUR HOUSE, SOMEONE TO SERVICE OUR, OUR, UH, LAUNDRY EQUIPMENT, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT BE 50 BUCKS AN HOUR.

IT MIGHT BE A HUNDRED DOLLARS AN HOUR, WHATEVER, IT'S A WAY LESS THAN WHAT WE'RE CHARGING FOR FEES ON A PER HOUR BASIS.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THOSE FEES ARE A LUMP SUM BASED UPON HOPEFULLY RECOVERING ALL OF THE F THE, THE TIME AND EFFORT PUT INTO PROVIDING THAT PERMIT, OR, YOU KNOW, SATISFYING THAT FEE REQUIREMENT FOR WHATEVER IT IS THAT SOMEBODY'S HAVING DONE AROUND THEIR HOUSE.

WHAT'S OUR, WHAT WOULD IT COST US IF WE SUBSIDIZED OUR, WHEN THEY ARE GETTING PERMITS AND, AND FEE WISE, WHAT WOULD WE SAY? HOW MUCH WOULD WE BE SUBSIDIZING IF WE CHARGE THEM A QUOTE, NORMAL OR NOMINAL RATE, ANY WILD IDEA? I MEAN, I REALLY STRONGLY BELIEVE ABOUT NOT GIVING AWAY PUBLIC FUNDS.

AND I REALLY BELIEVE THAT WE OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO GET BACK ALL THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

BUT IT'S AT A POINT NOW WHERE IT'S JUST, I MEAN, WHEN I LOOKED AT SOME OF THE INDIVIDUAL JOBS PERMITTING FOR POOLS, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WATER HEATERS A LONG TIME AGO, IS THERE SOME, IS THERE A MIDDLE GROUND HERE SOMEPLACE? BECAUSE THIS JUST SEEMS EXCESSIVE.

IF WE'RE A CITY PROVIDING SERVICES.

YEAH.

WE OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO GET REIMBURSED FOR THE SERVICES WE PROVIDE, BUT WE DON'T GET REIMBURSED TOTALLY FOR OUR POLICE AND FIRE PROTECTION.

SO WHAT WOULD MAKE THIS ANY DIFFERENT? I'M SORRY, I'M JUST RAMBLING BEFORE, BEFORE BEN.

UM, YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT HAS COME UP BEFORE OUR, I THINK ONE THING WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME TO CONSIDER AS FAR AS SUBSIDIES IS THAT IF SOMEONE IS PULLING PERMIT FOR A HOME REMODEL AND IT'S SUBSIDIZED BY THE GENERAL FUND, WHY SHOULD RESIDENTS THAT AREN'T REMODELING THEIR HOME, BE SUBJECT TO THAT? SO IT GETS REALLY, WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES, OKAY, SO WHERE ARE WE GOING TO DRAW THE LINE? BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF THESE SERVICES, THEY SHOULD BE CITY SERVICES.

WE PAY OUR TAXES FOR IT, BUT IT'S JUST HARD WHERE YOU DRAW THE LINE WHERE WE'RE SUBSIDIZING SOMETHING THAT ANOTHER RESIDENT'S NOT BENEFITING FROM.

SO THAT WAS ALL I HAD.

NO, AND THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT.

NOW, I BELIEVE THAT MY HEART HEARTS ALSO, I JUST THOUGHT THESE ARE THINGS, THESE ARE RANDOM THOUGHTS THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THAT.

I KNOW PEOPLE ARE GOOD.

THAT WILL TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN TO THIS ARE THINKING ABOUT TOO.

SO WHY NOT FLUSH THEM OUT AND DISCUSS IT, THROW IT ON THE TABLE AND COME UP WITH A RATIONALE FOR WHY WANT TO WORK.

I KNOW EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS, AND THIS COMES UP, THIS TYPE THING, AND THE BASIS FOR HOW I LOOK AT IT IS AS LONG AS WE'RE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THE OTHER CITIES DO AND HOW THEY RECONCILE THEIR BOOKS ALSO.

SO THAT WE'RE CONSISTENT WITH OUR, WITH OUR FEEDS.

THAT'S WHY SEVERAL YEARS AGO, WHEN WE HAD TO CHALLENGE